Comments on: Barely Legal Whores Get Gang-F***ed

By: Zak Smith

Zak Smith — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:55:14 +0000

“The problem with the piece is that the author does little to make us see the importance of this injustice before documenting it.”

I totally agree, Werther, unfortunately the Rumpus didn’t have room to print the 24 chapters of this book that preceded this excerpt.

You’ll just have to go buy it.

By: Werther

Werther — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:07:02 +0000

Most of the commenters seemed to love this piece, but to be honest, I found it to be poorly written and unconvincing. Morally, it’s completely one-sided – it doesn’t make so much as a gesture at understanding the perspective of the other side. From the first sentences, the piece is based on ad hominem attacks on Tyra Banks. The tone is vengeful and bitter throughout, not the kind of thing that inspires confidence in the sobriety and dispassion of the author. The effect is heightened by the exhaustive play-by-play of the whole interview, which illustrates the kind of rapt attention that could only be paid by someone deeply aggrieved by the whole spectacle.

The problem with the piece is that the author does little to make us see the importance of this injustice before documenting it. This Tyra-style hitjob is a ubiquitous feature of television, and there are a million examples of it. So why this? What are the underlying issues at stake? In the first paragraph the author intimates that he knows Sasha Grey personally; whether it’s true or not, the piece reads as if he does.

This is written by someone already certain in his opinions on the subject, for an audience of the same. This is a rant, in the worst possible way.

By: Harry

Harry — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 00:07:45 +0000

So an industry that is sleazy with undercurrents of drug abuse and criminality was attacked unfairly by a manipulative mainstream T.V. show and the major “victim” was a knowing porn star who was willing to take the abuse (she knew what was coming) in order to garner publicity in a larger cultural context, one that is hungry for the spectacle of this type ? Did I miss anything that was not obvious or old information–nothing new or mind bending in your reporting. You gotta aim higher than that!! Tell me somthing I don’t know already.

By: LisaMarie

LisaMarie — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 01:16:35 +0000

egret–

Your first paragraph:

“Fat whore” is an unattractive image. Who wouldn’t stand behind that?

“Fat girl” is a whole other ball of wax. If you read Zak’s book you’ll see how much he likes the very big and very sexy April Flores.

Your (totally unrelated) second paragraph:

I have no idea what any of what you wrote is suposed to have to do with the excerpt from the book, but, for the record, most rich people make less in a year than Tyra can drop in one day of shopping.

Sasha Grey lives in abig house in Hollywood does quite alright. And, if anything ever written about her by anybody whose met her can be believed, she also likes the work.

And, yes, the porn industry is way out of whack. Duh. That’s in a whole other chapter of this book you haven’t read yet, though.

By: Egret

Egret — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 21:49:30 +0000

At least everyone agrees about the really important thing – fat girls are ugly. So ugly that describing someone as spiritually fat is the best way to explain that they are morally repulsive. As long no one challenges that universal truth there are no actual divides in our culture, just a little bickering that both “sides” can use for their own financial benefit.

The porn industry brings in an enormous amount of money. If I’m remembering correctly it brings in more than many other forms of entertainment – traditional movies, TV and even sports. Yet porn stars are lucky if they make as much as 1% of the annual income that stars in those other types of entertainment make. This is in spite of the fact that producing porn costs much, much less than producing those other kinds of entertainment. That disparity means that something somewhere in the porn industry is way out of whack. Sasha better have chosen her profession because she loves the work. She makes less in a year than Tyra can afford to drop in one day of shopping.

By: Rosa

Rosa — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 16:52:04 +0000

Some of the comments are funny indeed. Haven’t you guys seen Cat House on HBO? Porn and sex in general are huge industries, and most definitely huge cultures.

The reason why they’re so underground with some of the uptights is because it’s still taboo in American culture. Have a quick look at some other countries in Europe, much less taboo and very liberal.

What happened to Americans? We’ve become so shy, it’s shameful.

By: Mara

Mara — Sat, 19 Dec 2009 19:02:38 +0000

I assume that since porn is such an enormous and ubiquitous business, a lot of people must be watching it; as a business, it is there only because someone wants to buy it; if there is so much of it, lots of people buy it. I consume it everyday.
I don’t think it is a form of culture, not at all, but why should it be? Sex doesn’t happen with the brain, it happens with the reproductive apparatus located quite far from the brain.
I don’t know how other porn-consumers feel, but I for one think that since it plays such a big role in my life, it might as well be fine to talk about it, and understand it. Understand why I like the kind of porn that ‘Tasha’ does. Understand how there are people who don’t just vicariously masturbate at home behind their laptop, but actually live the fantastic sexual experiences. Talk about the various things I fancy.
Tyra is a gorgeous looking woman, maybe the former fashion model I find most sexy of them all; but why does she have to dress in the Pope’s shoes and waive her morals to us kinks?
Now, cheer up, Tyra, it’s a free world, and we can all masturbate and have sex as we please. We didn’t make our sexuality, your God made us so perverted and libidinous; he designed the machine, we are barely using it. Have complaints? Present them to the ‘Maker’, not to humans merely being human!!!
I strongly dislike the word ‘whore’, but if its actual meaning is ‘woman who pursues her sexuality freely without stopping to wonder about others’ opinions’, then it’s not all that bad. I have a clit, I love it, I want to satisfy it in perverted ways. Its will is monstrous, and stubborn; if I don’t feed it, revenge is sought in mischievous ways. If Tyra wants to come and shake her head in disgust at my bedside while I do it, it’s her ridicule and my amuse.
Marvelous article.

By: slegg

slegg — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 20:09:15 +0000

I loved this article, but this comments section is puzzling. Questions, such as:

- Is porn “culture” or “pop-culture?”
- Should we care if daytime television is misrepresenting (and humiliating) sex workers in general, and Sasha Grey in particular?
- Is calling Tyra a whore the same as calling Sasha Grey a whore? Is calling someone a whore a bad thing at all?
- Is saying that something is only about “commerce and capitalism” grounds for leaving it out of a literary journal?

Rumpus readers, you surprise me. I hope to read many more articles about sex and sex work in the future. Especially while I’m at work.

By: Damian

Damian — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 03:43:07 +0000

That was an outstanding article.

By: jesusangelgarcia

jesusangelgarcia — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 03:28:40 +0000

Zak’s vivid play-by-play (I haven’t watched the episode) points out the absurd elitism of talk-TV do-gooders, who aren’t even aware of their own hypocrisy. I’m sure they think they’re providing a public service w/ the requisite sensationalism to bring eyeballs to advertisers, but the whole spectacle reeks of bullshit.

From where I sit, Tyra Banks and Sasha Grey are sister whores, cut from the same pop-culture cloth where women sell their bodies for top dollar. This is a social construct and we all play a part b/c we LOVE to watch, either to fuck them in our dreams or to put them down to put ourselves up.

What most of us don’t seem to realize is that we’re all in this together. Reminds me of a couple of Jane’s Addiction songs: “Whores” and “Pigs in Zen.” Funny, too, b/c doesn’t guitarist Dave Navarro have some kind of managerial claim on Ms. Grey’s ass?

I like this piece b/c it explores a lot of issues that drove me to write my 3xbad book: Is there such a thing as sexual morality? What does intimacy look like in a culture of violence and hypocrisy? What’s the line between self-destruction and redemption? Who are we (from the outside looking in, or on, or at) to judge another’s behavior?

Finally, seems to me that Banks, Grey, TV-talk and porn all address the same dichotomy: shameful v. shameless. And yet, I’m left wondering… is there really a difference?