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	<title>Comments on: The Blurb #12: On Disturbance</title>
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		<title>By: Ali Liebegott</title>
		<link>http://therumpus.net/2009/11/the-blurb-12-on-disturbance/comment-page-1/#comment-11727</link>
		<dc:creator>Ali Liebegott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:40:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[try being a lesbian poet!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>try being a lesbian poet!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Johnson</title>
		<link>http://therumpus.net/2009/11/the-blurb-12-on-disturbance/comment-page-1/#comment-11712</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 16:32:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therumpus.net/?p=37660#comment-11712</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Several years ago, the National Book Awards nominated five women from NYC in the fiction category. Gender crowded out that discussion as well. Some of us were vastly irritated that five New Yorkers had been nominated (excluding the entire rest of the country) but we were lumped in with the sexists. There were those who felt that those five books all represented a very narrow post-Lish sensibility, but they too were lumped in with the sexists.

One note--consistently lost in these debates--the PW 10 best is obviously not a list that disregards genre, it&#039;s not as though all ten of the books were novels...and yet every post I read is furious that Atwood, Byatt, Mantel, &amp; Munro weren&#039;t considered one of the top 10 novels. It&#039;s not a list of 10 novels, folks. There are only four fiction titles on the list. Isn&#039;t it plausible that a woman might be excluded from the top 4? I should also note that no one on any of these comment threads ever seem to mention a nonfiction book by a woman.

If you go to the publisher&#039;s weekly page, you&#039;ll find that they have the top 10 FOLLOWED BY the rest of the best broken down by genre. You know what neither list includes a lot of? BIG NAMES. Not only like Atwood, Munro, et al. BUT also like no Roth, Pynchon, Updike. It was a bad year for the big names, people. Most of their books are destined to be regarded as also-rans. The Mantel and the Byatt in particular were poorly reviewed.

Look at the list PW published (top 10 and farther down) and make comparisons. Promote PW&#039;s selections from Best Fiction to Best of the Best. Make PARTICULAR arguments. Because it&#039;s clear that PW not only thought Wolf Hall (Mantel) was a historical novel that they didn&#039;t care about, but that Inherent Vice (Pynchon) was a tired genre riff.  Don&#039;t make arguments for books that weren&#039;t in the running. Instead...

...tell me why Jayne Anne Phillips&#039; Lark and Termite was a better book than Dan Chaon&#039;s Await Your Reply. Or why Yiyun Li&#039;s The Vagrants is a better book than Victor Lavalle&#039;s Big Machine. I have not yet read any of the four--but then neither have you. Otherwise the arguments wouldn&#039;t be so reliant on gender generalities of both dispositions.

While I agree that it&#039;s unlikely that a list of the 10 best works of fiction could plausibly be unbiased and w/o a woman, I think that it&#039;s reasonable that a list of four genuinely could be.

So far, I think the Lorrie Moore was unjustly excluded but I don&#039;t think it&#039;s so clear cut. Perhaps the novel will change my mind as I get further along. I wish the last third of Binnie Kirshenbaum&#039;s too little reviewed The Scenic Route had been as good as the first two thirds--but it wasn&#039;t.  

I read fiction by women and men this year, and I have to say I didn&#039;t read a better book of stories than Daniyal Mueenuddin&#039;s. I thought the Geoff Dyer was weird, unusual, and wonderful--and if PW wants to honor that, then I think they&#039;ve got a case. Haven&#039;t read the Lavalle or the Chaon.

We could equally well note that nearly every major literary prize went to a woman.  Women don&#039;t need this furor anymore--lumping these remarkable individual authors in a category too narrow to contain them.  When Byatt objects to the Orange prize, maybe she&#039;s worth a listen?  

Let me repeat, women have won nearly every major literary prize this year.  Doesn&#039;t that register?  Has anyone noticed?  I, for one, don&#039;t think that&#039;s unlikely. But then, I don&#039;t think this list is unlikely either.

The Willa list is an empty exercise--it&#039;s just a list--makes no claims except &quot;2009&quot; and &quot;woman.&quot;  As such, it doesn&#039;t do the authors on it any favors.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Several years ago, the National Book Awards nominated five women from NYC in the fiction category. Gender crowded out that discussion as well. Some of us were vastly irritated that five New Yorkers had been nominated (excluding the entire rest of the country) but we were lumped in with the sexists. There were those who felt that those five books all represented a very narrow post-Lish sensibility, but they too were lumped in with the sexists.</p>
<p>One note&#8211;consistently lost in these debates&#8211;the PW 10 best is obviously not a list that disregards genre, it&#8217;s not as though all ten of the books were novels&#8230;and yet every post I read is furious that Atwood, Byatt, Mantel, &amp; Munro weren&#8217;t considered one of the top 10 novels. It&#8217;s not a list of 10 novels, folks. There are only four fiction titles on the list. Isn&#8217;t it plausible that a woman might be excluded from the top 4? I should also note that no one on any of these comment threads ever seem to mention a nonfiction book by a woman.</p>
<p>If you go to the publisher&#8217;s weekly page, you&#8217;ll find that they have the top 10 FOLLOWED BY the rest of the best broken down by genre. You know what neither list includes a lot of? BIG NAMES. Not only like Atwood, Munro, et al. BUT also like no Roth, Pynchon, Updike. It was a bad year for the big names, people. Most of their books are destined to be regarded as also-rans. The Mantel and the Byatt in particular were poorly reviewed.</p>
<p>Look at the list PW published (top 10 and farther down) and make comparisons. Promote PW&#8217;s selections from Best Fiction to Best of the Best. Make PARTICULAR arguments. Because it&#8217;s clear that PW not only thought Wolf Hall (Mantel) was a historical novel that they didn&#8217;t care about, but that Inherent Vice (Pynchon) was a tired genre riff.  Don&#8217;t make arguments for books that weren&#8217;t in the running. Instead&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;tell me why Jayne Anne Phillips&#8217; Lark and Termite was a better book than Dan Chaon&#8217;s Await Your Reply. Or why Yiyun Li&#8217;s The Vagrants is a better book than Victor Lavalle&#8217;s Big Machine. I have not yet read any of the four&#8211;but then neither have you. Otherwise the arguments wouldn&#8217;t be so reliant on gender generalities of both dispositions.</p>
<p>While I agree that it&#8217;s unlikely that a list of the 10 best works of fiction could plausibly be unbiased and w/o a woman, I think that it&#8217;s reasonable that a list of four genuinely could be.</p>
<p>So far, I think the Lorrie Moore was unjustly excluded but I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s so clear cut. Perhaps the novel will change my mind as I get further along. I wish the last third of Binnie Kirshenbaum&#8217;s too little reviewed The Scenic Route had been as good as the first two thirds&#8211;but it wasn&#8217;t.  </p>
<p>I read fiction by women and men this year, and I have to say I didn&#8217;t read a better book of stories than Daniyal Mueenuddin&#8217;s. I thought the Geoff Dyer was weird, unusual, and wonderful&#8211;and if PW wants to honor that, then I think they&#8217;ve got a case. Haven&#8217;t read the Lavalle or the Chaon.</p>
<p>We could equally well note that nearly every major literary prize went to a woman.  Women don&#8217;t need this furor anymore&#8211;lumping these remarkable individual authors in a category too narrow to contain them.  When Byatt objects to the Orange prize, maybe she&#8217;s worth a listen?  </p>
<p>Let me repeat, women have won nearly every major literary prize this year.  Doesn&#8217;t that register?  Has anyone noticed?  I, for one, don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s unlikely. But then, I don&#8217;t think this list is unlikely either.</p>
<p>The Willa list is an empty exercise&#8211;it&#8217;s just a list&#8211;makes no claims except &#8220;2009&#8243; and &#8220;woman.&#8221;  As such, it doesn&#8217;t do the authors on it any favors.</p>
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		<title>By: Ru Freeman</title>
		<link>http://therumpus.net/2009/11/the-blurb-12-on-disturbance/comment-page-1/#comment-11711</link>
		<dc:creator>Ru Freeman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 15:02:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therumpus.net/?p=37660#comment-11711</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you thank you thank you for a witty and astute deconstruction of the PW process. I, too, have a few books on that original list which I love, (Paul Yoon, ONCE THE SHORE comes to mind), but I stand firmly behind WILLA&#039;s response.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you thank you thank you for a witty and astute deconstruction of the PW process. I, too, have a few books on that original list which I love, (Paul Yoon, ONCE THE SHORE comes to mind), but I stand firmly behind WILLA&#8217;s response.</p>
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		<title>By: Quince</title>
		<link>http://therumpus.net/2009/11/the-blurb-12-on-disturbance/comment-page-1/#comment-11619</link>
		<dc:creator>Quince</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 02:06:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therumpus.net/?p=37660#comment-11619</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is one of the 2009&#039;s Best 100 Essays on Gender and Publishing Buzz.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is one of the 2009&#8242;s Best 100 Essays on Gender and Publishing Buzz.</p>
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		<title>By: Hong</title>
		<link>http://therumpus.net/2009/11/the-blurb-12-on-disturbance/comment-page-1/#comment-11618</link>
		<dc:creator>Hong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 01:28:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therumpus.net/?p=37660#comment-11618</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Terrific piece, Susan! This is hilarious and dead-on. I can&#039;t believe we are all *still* dealing with this. What dunderheads.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terrific piece, Susan! This is hilarious and dead-on. I can&#8217;t believe we are all *still* dealing with this. What dunderheads.</p>
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		<title>By: Patti Horvath</title>
		<link>http://therumpus.net/2009/11/the-blurb-12-on-disturbance/comment-page-1/#comment-11609</link>
		<dc:creator>Patti Horvath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 18:53:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therumpus.net/?p=37660#comment-11609</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hmmm...let&#039;s see...

&quot;...Bernard Schriever &amp; The Ultimate Weapon&quot;
&quot;Shop Class as Soul Craft&quot;
&quot;Big Machine&quot;
&quot;Deadly Obsession in the Amazon&quot;

Nope, no gender bias at work here.

&quot;Ignoring gender&quot; seems to me suspiciously akin to people who claim they don&#039;t &quot;see&quot; color.  It&#039;s there and these editors are clearly making a statement about what norms &amp; subjects make for the &quot;best&quot; literature.  They might, if they are so disturbed, question how those norms were determined.

Susan&#039;s response &quot;kicks total ass.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm&#8230;let&#8217;s see&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;Bernard Schriever &amp; The Ultimate Weapon&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Shop Class as Soul Craft&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Big Machine&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Deadly Obsession in the Amazon&#8221;</p>
<p>Nope, no gender bias at work here.</p>
<p>&#8220;Ignoring gender&#8221; seems to me suspiciously akin to people who claim they don&#8217;t &#8220;see&#8221; color.  It&#8217;s there and these editors are clearly making a statement about what norms &amp; subjects make for the &#8220;best&#8221; literature.  They might, if they are so disturbed, question how those norms were determined.</p>
<p>Susan&#8217;s response &#8220;kicks total ass.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: lelo</title>
		<link>http://therumpus.net/2009/11/the-blurb-12-on-disturbance/comment-page-1/#comment-11571</link>
		<dc:creator>lelo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 23:25:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Agreed, Andy. I loved this article.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed, Andy. I loved this article.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://therumpus.net/2009/11/the-blurb-12-on-disturbance/comment-page-1/#comment-11568</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 22:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therumpus.net/?p=37660#comment-11568</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is the best thing I&#039;ve read on the Rumpus in months.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the best thing I&#8217;ve read on the Rumpus in months.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Marcela</title>
		<link>http://therumpus.net/2009/11/the-blurb-12-on-disturbance/comment-page-1/#comment-11563</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcela</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 20:27:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Thank you Vince for pointing out this wonderful post. Thank you, Susan, for your intelligent, funny and firm grasp of the situation. It&#039;s very refreshing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Vince for pointing out this wonderful post. Thank you, Susan, for your intelligent, funny and firm grasp of the situation. It&#8217;s very refreshing.</p>
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		<title>By: Cheng-Ling</title>
		<link>http://therumpus.net/2009/11/the-blurb-12-on-disturbance/comment-page-1/#comment-11558</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheng-Ling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:03:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for taking such a smart and sharp look at this disturbing issue.  It is particularly inspiring for young women writers to read this and to know that there are brilliant women writers out there creating, thinking, paving the way.  What a great list on  WILLA!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for taking such a smart and sharp look at this disturbing issue.  It is particularly inspiring for young women writers to read this and to know that there are brilliant women writers out there creating, thinking, paving the way.  What a great list on  WILLA!</p>
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