1. Don’t smile while they are exercising. This especially goes for when women are jogging. Many men over thirty (MOTs) do this move where they stop, turn, and—while watching a woman jog past them—smile for a seemingly inhuman amount of time. Please don’t do this. It’s creepy, and everyone knows what you’re doing. Also don’t start smiling when a woman is jogging toward you. She is looking intensely past you for a reason. This rule also applies at the gym. I don’t go to the gym, because I’ve given up on my body, but I have friends who tell me stories of men over thirty hitting on women under twenty-five at the gym. I imagine a balding man with shoulder-hair sprouts sweating profusely and leaning on a treadmill while a woman under twenty-five (WUTs), who has a graduate degree and a good job and a bright social life, is just trying to exercise. He’s smiling and talking to himself because she has headphones on.
2) Don’t hold a door open for an absurd amount of time. This typically also involves a creepy smile. The long-door-hold seems to say, “I want to fuck you, look how nice I am, I’m just being a really nice guy is all.” This awkward interaction may last only ten or fifteen seconds, but it feels much longer. The long-door-hold is often followed by the ass-check-out, which is obvious and embarrassing. These types of MOTs wear khakis and order coffee drinks with whipped cream. If you’re going to hold a door open for a WUT and you’re a MOT, just don’t make eye contact, and please make sure you’re not holding the door open for any other reason than to be nice. Ask yourself, “Would I hold this door open for someone I don’t want to stick my penis inside?” You know what, maybe just don’t hold the door open at all. Most women have arms.
3) Don’t stare at a woman’s crotch like you’re going to beam into it. This one may seem obvious, but I’ve seen many MOTs do this, typically at a coffee shop or restaurant. The MOT is typically sitting down and starring at the crotches of the waitresses and other female customers who are conveniently at an eye-to-crotch level. MOTs who check out young asses are common in our society, but the crotch-gazer is a special breed of aging man. It seems aggressive in a murderous way. If you do this, please stop immediately. If you do this and sit near the bathroom to stare at female crotches as they leave it, my only hope is that you one day unknowingly crotch-watch your mother.
4) If you’re within ten feet of a WUT, don’t adjust your penis and testicles with your hand inside your pants pocket.
5) Don’t stand inches from a woman when there are several feet of space. Many MOTs are desperate and for some reason think close physical proximity will work in their favor, when in reality, it does the exact opposite. Just because you’re sitting at the bar doesn’t mean your feet have to be on her barstool, or worse, your knee touching her knee or leg. I’ve seen this too many times. It’s not only unbelievably aggressive, it’s gross. The only thing worse than a MOT hitting on a WUT is a drunk MOT hitting on a WUT while saying something like, “But your shoulders look so tight. Let me help.” You remind her of her Dad’s pervert friend, George or Bill or Frank.
6) Just don’t smile. This may seem like a ridiculous blanket statement, but I imagine the percentage of WUTs who want a MOT to smile at them is somewhere between 5 and 10.
Note: If you’re a MOT and you disagree with these suggestions, do the following: Walk into the bathroom and stand in front of the mirror. Look at yourself. Then smile and say, “Hello, ladies.” If you don’t feel like a creeper, good for you. It means you’re either Don Draper or Ryan Gosling.
***
Listen to Shane read his essay:
42 responses
The fuck does “men over 30” have to do with this? This would all be fine and OK if a 25-year-old guy did it? Or if any guy at all did it to a 40-year-old woman?
You undermine your argument by thinking this has anything at all to do with age.
Men, all men, should never EVER text anything non-logistical. It’s unattractive. (“on my way,” “do you need me to pick up anything?” are texts ok to receive from men). Anything else and you come off as the beta chump that would get the tribe lost in the woods because you don’t have your shiny screen toy. You’re a man…Why do you need an all day insta-pen pal?
I would be really into no men ever doing any of that near me. Ever.
Ray, you took the words out of my mouth. I’m 30, but the creepers haven’t stopped creeping at me.
There’s also the “grabbing your waist while they ‘edge’ past you grinding their junk into your butt” thing…
I’m pretty sure you can leave off the age requirements. Men should not act like this toward women in general.
I’m a woman older than 25, am i supposed to enjoy this behavior or am I ineligible? I agree with Ray this had nothing to do with age on either side.
I’m assuming the age brackets are sarcastic, otherwise you undermine your point(s).
Most of these I agree with, but:
“You know what, maybe just don’t hold the door open at all. Most women have arms.”
Really? I hold the door open for anyone–male or female. And I’ll never stop doing it, either. As long as you’re doing it for everyone, it’s sincere and polite.
I know this article was (at least partly) in jest, but….
The message I glean from it is that it is better to be rude and a dick than to risk having a narcissistic princess mistake kindness for perviness. While there are obvious pervs out there, I believe some ladies need to get over themselves. Also, there are quite a few “WUT” that date, even marry, these “MOT”. I must have gotten lucky that when I turned 30 I didn’t magically turn into some gross troll. Maybe men over 40 or 50 would be slightly more applicable here?
I’m glad to see that puritanical/victorian views on women persist.
Ok, as a MOFo (Manoverforty) I find that really extremely amusing and am probably guilty of one of these offences. hahaha I don’t really care because while I’m not quite Don Draper or Ryan Gosling, I am still pretty happening, especially for my age.
Ok, so no more holding the door open. And, if I run past you on the trail I’m going to make an angry face. I agree the others are creeptastic, but if you want to be totally ignored as a human being stay home.
It’s also difficult to discern how humorous this piece is…it seems to be a bit passive-aggressive and walking the line between seriousness and humor.
Anyway, Adam brings up an interesting point. Not many people discuss this, but there’s a problem with women today–mostly women under 35–overusing “creepy” or “creepy.” I mean, damn, a man can ask a woman out on a date in a completely polite way and if the woman isn’t attracted to him, he’s often placed in the “creepy” category. I realize this isn’t PC to say, but it’s the damn truth. Oh, because a man had the audacity to make a move on you he’s automatically placed in the same category as a peeping tom and then you call him a creep or label him creepy in the midst of your girls. It’s gotten to the point now where, basically, if you’re a dude who leaves the house some woman will eventually find a way to label you creepy…and, actually, if you don’t leave the house and/or follow the advice of the article, you’ll be creepy for never leaving your house or refusing to look at women!
I’m not trying to minimize genuine creepiness, but the word/concept is starting to lose its meaning due to overuse.
Does this apply to gay men too? I need to know. When I’m out jogging, sometimes I forget to wear my “Don’t worry, I’m gay.” t-shirt. While I’m doing circuits of the lake and eye-flirting with every man or dog who passes me, should I smile at women like a civil human being or should I staunchly avoid eye contact and smiles in case they misinterpret friendliness for creepiness. I’ve often wondered about this. I mean, it’s easy for me to ignore you. After all, you are sexually irrelevant.
Possibly the rule has to be modified for gay men – we tend to take better care of our bodies and we do have that lack-of-availability thing young women go crazy for. Let’s push the gay age cutoff back to 35. Obviously by the time they’re 40 even gay men have succumbed to their congenital male creepiness, but 30 is a bit early.
And THANK YOU for clearing things up about holding doors. When I was a teenager I held the door for everyone. It was so time consuming with all the stopping, waiting, “Thank you” and “My pleasure. Have a good day.”. Then I got my head out of my ass and realized that, as a gay man, I socially outrank everyone around me. Since then I’ve just blasted through doorways with complete abandon. I even get a little competitive. Hell, I’ve got places to go and men to see. Get out of my way princess!
I don’t understand #6. There are a hundred ways and situations in which a smile is appropriate and not creepy. And as long as a smile is not creepy or unseemly, why does it matter if the recipient of said smile seeks it or not? I’m afraid that I fail to see why the personal predilections of a gender or age group should set the norms for other gender and age groups.
Don’t be a creep seems a useful and sufficient injunction.
Dear WUT,
🙂
Sincerely,
MOT
Don’t kid yourselves. Age does matter, but that’s primarily because looks and status matter, even if we don’t readily admit it. This is exactly the reason why I’d enjoy Draper smiling at me and not the crusty old boss at my accounting job. But smiles aren’t by themselves creepy. It’s creepy smiles that are creepy (and anyone of any age can give a creepy smile).
Also, an unwanted smile isn’t necessarily a creepy one, but a creepy smile is always unwanted.
Okay, I get the message. All men should just ignore all women, never try to be friendly or helpful.
Sounds like a great world to live in.
So can I write a list of the things I don’t think women should do? Or would that make me part of the rape culture?
I too don’t know whether this is sarcasm or passive aggressive trigger baiting or just a sub-par essay. Cordoning off the interactions between men over thirty and women under twenty-five only serves to reinforce some misleading stereotypes. The “creeps” who are over thirty were likely creeps when they were 25 and no amount of delineating rules will change them.
As a man over 50, I smile at most anyone who makes eye contact and I hold the door out of politeness for anyone as well, but especially older folks, people with children and people who smile at me.
I don’t grab my crotch in front of women or anyone and while I can’t say I don’t ever look at women, I don’t leer at them.
But I smile. It’s a way of connecting. In my mind, the best first move. The response to a smile can tell you whether to take the next step of saying something about the weather. The response to that might encourage you, or not, to make an attempt at humor. And so on. This is how people who are not creepy interact. It’s an interaction that either one can call off if they aren’t interested and that’s the end of it.
Yes there are people, men, who don’t get that and who push those boundaries to varying degrees and that’s not ok. And the public conversations about that have grown in quantity and in quality for the most part. We are certainly talking about this.
This article, however, doesn’t seem to move that conversation forward. It is a step backward to say, “Just don’t smile.” It sounds like the author can’t really understand the difference between an interaction that respects the social contract we have with each other and an interaction based on a sense of male entitlement and lack of respect for women. A person who does not differentiate between the two does not deserve column space in such a forward thinking website as the Rumpus.
Where are these “[Women] under twenty-five (WUTs), who [have] a graduate degree and a good job and a bright social life,” who also have time to go to the gym? I am a WUT, and I’ve never met them at the meetings…
Jokes aside, my partner (who I live with, and plan on marrying and blah blah blah) is a MOT and there is nothing creepy about it. Also, he opens doors for me and I like it, damnit. I didn’t at first, because I was a bit of a self-righteous tenth-wave baby feminist, but I’ve come to appreciate it. I open doors for people of all ages and genders, and they can open them for me without me being a snarky asshole about it.
There’s only one rule, really, from MOT Wil Wheaton: Don’t be a dick.
Not that it matters or anything, but how old is the author?
7) MOTs should not react defensively to tongue-in-cheek essays about MOTs and WUTs. Doing so is most likely a sign that you have violated one or more of things 1 through 6.
Funny advice.
And when you’re in that wonderful twenty years of your life between being so young no one takes you seriously and so old no one pays any attention to you, do the rest of us a favor and stow your fucking advice. With any luck, you’ll one day have the pleasure of being old yourself, and this essay will sting as you remember it.
I like how Rich puts it into perspective above.
“…Just don’t smile …”
This piece kicks ass!
So much truth and good humor it is simply painfully pleasant reading. 🙂
Bravo, Shane Jones!
I loved this. So the ages are a little arbitrary. So what? Fun and playful and entertaining.
For a minute there I thought I was reading Thought Catalog.
Dude, maybe when you are finally over 30 (read actually a mature adult) you will understand how offensive everything you have said here is to both women and men in an innumerable variety of ways. Not only do you end up making (hopefully unintended) excuses for men under 30 doing these things… or thinking that men under 30 simply don’t do these things, which is utterly false, but you rely on rather frightening stereotypes for both men and women.
Also, I say this as a man over 30 who is dating a wonderful woman under 25.
I have a single friend who is guilty of everything above. Very guilty. I think it’s a numbers game for him though. Perhaps 1 out of 100 will react positively. I’m not sure, but what I am sure of is that he doesn’t care about the feelings of the other 99. Shame, because he really is a nice guy. But still single, if that says anything.
I must admit I have been stunned by some of the comments here. This sort of thing is subjective, and I appreciate the discussion, but as a reader and editor, I thought this was smart and hilarious and definitely stand behind it.
Yes, but are you standing behind it , starring, with a creepy smile on your face?
Hmm…well, being a MOT (50, for those playing at home) I found the piece at best mildly annoying, as much for the time-worn clichés as anything. If you want to do something truly hilarious and smart – try writing a piece that glorifies the differences between people, rather than vilifying a select subgroup and trying to pass it off as humorous. Returned, with a D-; try again.
I saw the humor potential, but I don’t think the author pulled it off. I don’t think satire is easy to write and when I scrutinized and still didn’t see any clues that this was satire – over-the-top description, extra-serious tone, etc. – I assumed it was a sophomoric proto-feminist screed.
Still and all, these things are subjective and satire is hard to communicate, particularly in a venue where it’s not expected.
Haha … wondering if any of the negative commenters followed through on the Note’s suggestion.
At first I assumed this was written by a woman, and I found it sad and offensive. “Just don’t smile” . . . wow. Yes, please, let’s make the world an even colder and more lonely place. Let’s assume that everyone who interacts in a friendly way with a stranger is sexually predatory.
Then I realized the writer is a man. Somehow that made it even less funny.
I think Shane Jones is creepy.
And not particularly funny. But what do I know; I’m just a MOT.
Good stuff
Keep your boundaries
Don’t be a creep
Respect people personal Space
And act street smart
Ahah, all the bitter old men MOT here :p CREEPYYYYY!! lol
Excellent piece!
O.K…..I Am MOT by 24 years. I hold the door open for women and 95% or more are grateful. I smile at WUT’s and Wot’s in passing and about the same amount smile back if they haven’t instigated the smile themselves.I sometime wonder whether they might see something that reminds me of their father, but I am o.k. with that too. When I smile at them I make eye contact, not because it is the right thing to do, but I enjoy the way a woman smiles with her eyes. Most of the other things are just plain common sense. I think the biggest problem nowadays is that people no longer make eye contact and walk around heads down in a trance to find out how popular there last Facebook status was. I try to do all my smartphone viewing once I’ve gotten where I was going. True story, several years ago I held a door open for a mother who passed through without making eye contact then her teenage daughter did the same. Finally the last of the daughters a girl around maybe 12 passed through,then turned back towards me and said thank you and then smiled. I was going through some really bad things in my life at the time and her smile made my entire day.
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